Alternative ways of distributing regular builds?

[RokkumanX]

I'm opening a issue about this because it seems the Orphis buildbot is completely down and have been for several days now.

Trying to reach the PPSSPP build section directly results in this every single time:

The Orphis buildbot have been a stable source for downloading builds for PPSSPP for as long as I can remember but I'm starting to believe that this isn't as temporary as it seems.

I do know about this but it requires the user to have an account here on GitHub:

Stenzek, the author of Duckstation regularly adds preview builds/rolling releases under:

Maybe this would be a suitable option for PPSSPP if the Orphis buildbot is permanently down?

[LunaMoo]

Orphis buildbot use case is far different from obtaining latest version by users that for some reason know ppsspp github project and are interested in it's developement, but at the same time don't have a github account(which is weird and pretty far fetched).

Buildbot provided by Orphis due to very large storage is basically a bisecting tool enabled for people that can't compile on their own, it helped with many regressions and issues over time. Releases on github same as artifacts have limited storage and will expire, they just can't fill the same role.

Personally I don't think there's any benefit in providing manually prepared developement builds to people that can't report issues directly to issue tracker, but that's just me, I tried to do something alike with my custom builds in the past when I decided to share a few hackish "improvements", but after some time gave up and just replaced it with manual trigger on github actions since it was annoying, really demanded automation and that was quickest and easiest way to automate it.

[RokkumanX]

I know a couple of projects that don't provide regular builds to end-users and only have downloadable artifacts available here on GitHub whenever the project is active.

It works for the most time OK, but it needs again:

1. A GitHub account to access artifacts, however downloads provided in the Releases section don't and is available to the public no matter what

2. If there were to be a break/pause/halt in development the latest available artifact will expire eventually leaving no download available which is vulnerable leaving the only option to download sketchy builds from 3rd party affiliates or build it yourself (if you have the knowledge)

Maybe it's just me and there isn't a problem here, but I thought I would bring this up for discussion since Orphis is currently down and it's linked to on the README.md

I have started to notice a sort of negative trend in regards to emulation lately, a sort of decline and it's kind of sad.
The emulation scene isn't what it used to be.

[LunaMoo]

I don't really have a problem here at most say it might become annoyance for Henrik over time, just let me expand on why I think release builds, so called stable releases are enough.

I'm well aware(and dislike it) that emulation nowadays takes a turn into monetization, and "dev builds" are awfuly overselled by fancy names like "bleeding edge" etc. causing consument grade users that have really no idea what they look at to desire every number change that doesn't even affect anything they ever touch or see.

But in reality there's really no benefit for people wanting to just play games to have "latest dev build", why update 30 times during one playthrough of some japanese RPG when you could just forget about it and enjoy the experience? It doesn't benefit project either, it's not like such users leave feedback, those that do, have accounts and stick around wasting their time testing often broken stuff exactly so others doesn't have to.

[hrydgard]

Dev builds are super useful though when asking people to try different past versions to try to narrow down a bug (manual bisection).

So for that reason only, dev builds are worth having.

Orphis' build server should be back in the near future. And if for some reason that doesn't happen, I'll stand up my own infrastructure to do it instead, they're so important.

[LunaMoo]

Yeah, but that's for buildbot as I noted due to large storage, it helped with many regressions and issues. On github releases the storage is very limited will not replace it for that use case.

[anr2me]

Releases on github same as artifacts have limited storage and will expire, they just can't fill the same role.

According to this https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/releasing-projects-on-github/about-releases
Github release doesn't have a limit to the total size, it only limit 2gb per file, and can be used to provide a very large assets files on some projects.

Storage and bandwidth quotas

Each file included in a release must be under 2 GiB. There is no limit on the total size of a release, nor bandwidth usage.

But yeah, Orphis Buildbot looks better for providing builds for each merged PR, as it also shows each commit's message and provide the link to the PR/commits.

[LunaMoo]

Github isn't giving up free unlimited hosting lol. There's a hard limit on repository or even user account.

[anr2me]

Based on https://blog.mergify.com/github-storage-limits-what-are-the-alternatives/

Releases benefit from a much higher included file size limit and absolutely no limit on the size of the release itself. Individual files included in the release can be as large as 2 GB. By leveraging the more permissive data limits associated with releases on GitHub, you can store far more than would be possible in your main repository. After all, by design, repositories managed with Git and GitHub are intended to be used for source control, not direct distribution. That's what makes releases so useful.

[LunaMoo]

You need to read the fine print, go to your account settings and check current billing plan. If it's free like mine, it states:

GitHub Free
The basics for all developers
Unlimited public/private repos
Unlimited collaborators
2,000 Actions minutes/month
500MB of Packages storage
120 core-hours of Codespaces compute per developer
15GB of Codespaces storage per developer
Community support

[LunaMoo]

So basically 500 mb limit for releases(shared with artifacts I believe), 15gb limit for code storage, 2000 actions per month.

[anr2me]

I think those are repository limits, where artifacts/package and cache also share the same limit (i think), unlike release that are more permissive and currently have no limit being mentioned (but i'm sure they'll contact you if you're taking a very large space and bandwidth).

You can see many linux distros being uploaded to github release with each size nearly 1 gb, those distros didn't even uploaded automatocally from github action, but manually uploaded. Some of those repositories (they're not even official repo) even have been archived/no longer maintained, but their released distros are still downloadable.

[LunaMoo]

There's a lot of confusion around github, but it's infinite plan while exist is still paid for as much as you take, no company would survive giving up free unlimited hosting >.<

Anyway I at least think this will never happen:

the latest available artifact will expire eventually

I believe artifacts are "expiring" when they reach the limit and not after specified time. Currently my latest artifact is just 3month old, but it's because I remove those manually, I never had it disappearing on my fork.

[anr2me]

the latest available artifact will expire eventually

I believe artifacts are "expiring" when they reach the limit and not after specified time. Currently my latest artifact is just 3month old, but it's because I remove those manually, I never had it disappearing on my fork.

They can be customized, but the default is 90 days
https://docs.github.com/en/repositories/managing-your-repositorys-settings-and-features/enabling-features-for-your-repository/managing-github-actions-settings-for-a-repository#configuring-the-retention-period-for-github-actions-artifacts-and-logs-in-your-repository

By default, the artifacts and log files generated by workflows are retained for 90 days before they are automatically deleted. You can adjust the retention period, depending on the type of repository:

• For public repositories: you can change this retention period to anywhere between 1 day or 90 days.
• For private repositories: you can change this retention period to anywhere between 1 day or 400 days.

When you customize the retention period, it only applies to new artifacts and log files, and does not retroactively apply to existing objects. For managed repositories and organizations, the maximum retention period cannot exceed the limit set by the managing organization or enterprise.

Anyway, people who want to get the most up to date merged PR should create a github account and download the artifacts, since we'll be expecting their feedbacks.

Unfortunately, github is enforcing registered users to use 2FA, which some people might find it a hassle if they're not used to it.

[RokkumanX]

First of all I would like to say that I'm glad that this have gotten quite the attention and would like to thank you all for keeping the discussion in a civil manner and staying on the topic as much as possible.

This is exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping for! (So please forgive me for straying away with this)

I have been around emulation for almost 25 years and still remember the first emulators I used being entirely proprietary and closed sourced.

There were no such thing as getting regular or daily based development/preview/beta builds in early 2000's and you had to patiently wait until the next big release which could mean quite a while and you were then stuck with the bugs/issues you discovered.

There wasn't until late 2000's the change began to happen, I think Dolphin was one of the first emulators I came in contact with that started to distribute SVN builds regularly back when they hosted their code on Google Code.

Yes, more and more projects started to change from closed sourced to open sourced and "builds" started to become the new norm and I remember vaguely that if your project was behind closed source "you were evil and was hiding something"

Of course we have come a long way since then, almost (yes almost) every project today is open sourced and builds are practically everywhere in every flavor and updated regularly for every system known to man at this point.

The last couple of years have been amazing, I personally have been taking things for granted and exploited and cherry picked my way through the jungle of emulation like some mad man.

Of course, there have also been some bad eggs here and there, trying to feed on others with their constantly greedy money making schemes through Patreon.

Open sourced and still want to make a lousy buck leaves quite the bitter after taste in the mouth.

Anyway, this might very well be the final public appearance I will make in the topic of emulation because journeys have to end sooner or later I guess.

Projects have come and projects have gone over the years and so as the people that have created and fostered them.

I feel that PPSSPP is no where near of being in the danger zone of being extinct.

1. Active community and very talented developers that actually cares about the project
2. Almost daily builds

PPSSPP have been one of the few exemplary emulators that have made everything right, that's why it have been so successful.

Development builds are not bad and is an invaluable tool used to find/pin point regressions and bugs, PPSSPP have mastered this with an healthy release cycle of stable releases with goals and milestones along the way.

You know, I love Mupen64Plus but if you were to go there and download an up to date build of something you might end up getting this:

Or this:

This is a very vulnerable approach keeping artifacts available for one month, users have to constantly check if there were to be an update and if you are one day late then there is no download for you.

YES, we also have to take the biggest elephant in the room in to the equation, GitHub.
Constant changes with constant 2FA pestering, at this point I hate this toxicity.

Orphis buildbot is down for now, but for how long? Only time will tell.
You know what they say about EmuCr, that's not an option many people are prepared to go.

For now, downloading an up to date artifact is more then enough for most end-users if you can live with the constant 2FA pestering.

I'm sorry for rambling on for such a long time here but I have a feeling that emulation is about to change in the future for better or for worse.

Thank you very much!

[anr2me]

Fortunately, with how active PPSSPP developments are, there will always be a new artifacts available to download (at least for the master branch) :)
And, for Android's APK, iOS's IPA, Windows/XBox's UWP you can generate an artifact by running one of the Manual action/workflow from the Actions section.