Remove yank behavior of `c` and `d`

[samholmes]

I think Vim made a mistake by letting c and d pollute the default register by "yanking" the contents of the change or deletion. I'll make a short case as to why I think Helix should make a bold decision to not do this like vim (and maybe even kak).

Why not?

The reason why d and c should not also yank is simple, because you can yank before d and c easily with y. You cannot as easily "prevent yank" without knowing about registers and particularly the black-hole register "_; so you're left with "_d or "_c which is too often a use-case to make it not the default behavior. The times when you want to yank before a modification is easily opt-in with yd and yc. Simply put, the answer why the default behavior should be inverted: it's the correct UX.

Note, in View mode, y does not remove the selection like it does in vim. This positions Helix to be able to even consider the correct behavior.

With the correct default behavior in place, users can edit happily knowing that when they copy something to their default register many modifications back in their history, they will not accidentally overwrite the default register with d and c. The foot-gun has been holstered.

How do we migrate?

Some users (vim and kak alike) will not expect this change and will perhaps not like to modify their habit. However, this could easily be mitigated with a config to change the default behavior back (which is what user's do already). If a user doesn't like the position Helix makes, they can modify the behavior or change their habits.

Please.

[the-mikedavis]

This is currently implemented in the delete_selection_noyank (A-d) and change_selection_noyank (A-c). You can switch the keybinds in your config.toml:

# ~/.config/helix/config.toml
[keys.normal]
A-d = "delete_selection"
d = "delete_selection_noyank"
A-c = "change_selection"
c = "change_selection_noyank"

I'm not sure it makes sense for this to be the default keymap though - yd or yc is the same number of keystrokes as A-d or A-c so if anything it would make sense to remove the A-d and A-c keybinds. Without anything to replace those keybinds I'm not sure it makes much sense to reclaim them. Plus in my experience, if you're running around a code-base selecting lines/blocks/etc and deleting them with d and then placing something new with y, you might be better off using R which doesn't affect the yank register.

On the other hand I agree with your reasoning:

you can yank before d and c easily with y.

[samholmes]

@the-mikedavis A-d being Alt+d or Option+d on macOS, does not appear to delete without yank.

To the point about R: Yes, R is best for replacing text with the last yanked text. But the point isn't about using d or c to replace text; rather the point is that if you're doing d or c to insert some text, and then later you chose to use R or p to replace/paste what was yanked, then you'd be remise to find what you thought was in the register has been hijacked by your insert operation. If we instead make yank more explicit with y, then you no longer have to feel uneasy about accidentally overwriting your register as you operate on your file. The reason why I think yank should always be explicit, is because registers have no history and are subject volatile. From a UX perspective, we must treat yank with respect, we must make it an explicit action to yank with y.

As for keystroke count: yd is more than d because it does more than d. There is no need for A-d anymore. If one really wished for less keystrokes, then x is suitable for the job, but then we'd need a key for line-selection. By introducing x as a shorter version of yd we open a can of worms because now why not a shorter yc? Maybe it's best to be conservative here and let yd remain yd for the sake of all that is good.

[EpocSquadron]

I for one would actually be in favor of this change. One thing I think helix does well is being discoverable and obvious, and the more I think on things the more I realize that key bindings that do conditional logic or do more than one thing make things a little less obvious and discoverable.

[samholmes]

I for one would actually be in favor of this change. One thing I think helix does well is being discoverable and obvious, and the more I think on things the more I realize that key bindings that do conditional logic or do more than one thing make things a little less obvious and discoverable.

I couldn't agree more. I think the challenge with modal editing has always been a UX challenge. The primary UX mis-step has not been communicating the mode to the user. The mode that you're in should be obvious and not require any user memory (I shouldn't need to remember that I entered insert mode before leaving my desk to go to the restroom, for example). Furthermore, learning curve should compound over-time. If I learn that y yanks text, and d deletes text, I should be able to use that knowledge to cleverly compose those actions into "cut". I argue that any action that is composable should remain a composition, and the atomic actions (those which cannot be composed) deserve their own single-key binding. This is a loose goal with maybe some exceptions.

[danyspin97]

@the-mikedavis A-d being Alt+d or Option+d on macOS, does not appear to delete without yank.

It works for me. If they don't work for you (via the the keybindings or the command palette) please open a bug. I'd consider them functional to continue the discussion forward.

Why not swapping A-c and A-d with c and d respectively? So users can still have a command that yanks and can use it when they need it. Also it makes sense to have the keybind with less keystrokes to do the most simple action.

[the-mikedavis]

It seems like that's a macos specific problem you could fix in terminal emulator: #2280

Swapping A-c and A-d could work but then it's the same number of key-presses as yc and yd, so we might as well just remove the current c and d mappings.

I'd like to try this out in my config for a bit but it seems like a reasonable change to me in theory

[samholmes]

I'm using Kitty (terminal app) and it doesn't register the Option key as Alt

I set max_os_opt_as_alt yes in my kitty.conf but still no fix.

EDIT: Never mind, it seems to have worked.

[danyspin97]

Swapping A-c and A-d could work but then it's the same number of key-presses as yc and yd, so we might as well just remove the current c and d mappings.

Except that now there is a delay for simple yank (y) and new composable commands unfamiliar to anyone. If they take the same keystrokes, then A-c and A-d seems better to me.

[EpocSquadron]

There would be no delay for yank, it would simply be sequential.