Replies: 12 comments 6 replies
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Hi Joel,
I wrote that paper 20 years ago (how time flies!) and it pertains to the
legacy software MorseKOB 2.5. Ed Silky is the authority on how the current
MKOB implementation works.
I'm happy that you have such a deep interest in Morse code software and I
wish I could be more help.
73,
~Les
…On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 11:58 AM Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
One part that is kind of perplexing me is the special cases added in the
extension described here
<https://drive.google.com/file/d/13_15H5RRoktjq47XIbDZHYPTNbwIBxPR/view>.
One of the first things I notice when I connect a station to say wire 180
or something with a feed is that after the ack from my connect packet I get
a data packet containing [-32767, 2, -1000, 2]. This confused me at first
then I noticed the kind of carve out for (-n, +2) case where n > 3000.
Ok, that seems to be what I have hear (at least for the first half). The
document says
If it is, then the program assumes that it’s a break rather than a long
dash, and it
opens the local circuit immediately instead of buffering the packet as
usual.
Does this mean that this operation "consumes" both the -n and the +2 and
that processing of codes should begin at the -1000 element? IF that is
the case then I am looking at another (-n, +2) packet except this time n
< 3000 which the document doesn't say here but does say in a different
section that this format is also what is sent when a key is unlatched and n
is how long it was latched for. What is a receiving station supposed to do
with that timing info (in this case 1000ms)?
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Nice! Just got some motivation to get back into learning Morse and this seems like a great resource even just turning on the auto feeds to practice listening! |
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Hi Joel,
I am also happy to help as much as possible. Thank you for moving this from
an Issue to a Discussion. It's nice to keep the issues to either bugs or
feature requests.
In the current code, for the most part, if the code is either 2
(open/unlatch) or 1 (close/latch) the other value is ignored. The exception
is in the Recorder (Player), where that value is actually used to provide
the correct overall timing of the code. But even that is only true if you
use the player with the option to not condense 'dead' time. When condensing
dead time any long key closed (or open) time is reduced to 5 seconds max
(default, but even that is configurable).
From the earlier discussion, it seemed like you were both a programmer and
interested in Morse. Is that the case? If so, I'm happy to point you to
places in the source that deal with things like this, but if you are mostly
just interested in Morse (and the protocol), then I won't bother taking the
time to locate specific code. Let me know.
To practice, you can also use MKOB to open a file and sound its contents.
Or, you can type into the keyboard sender window and have it sound what you
enter. You can turn on repeat to have it sound a list of characters, words,
sentences, repeatedly. There are a number of files that can be used for
training in the 'mkob_learn' directory. The file 'Word_list.txt' has a
large number of common words that you can use to practice with. All the
files in that directory are standard text files except
'Instructograph_Tape5.pkrec'. The text files can be opened using 'File
Open'. The '.pkrec' file is a recording file. For that you use the
'Recording:Play'. While playing you can pause, go back, etc. - the keys to
control the playback are listed in the User Manual and in the Help>Keys.
One difference between the two is that text files are sounded at whatever
speed you have MKOB set to (including Farnsworth), while recordings
reproduce the code just as it was originally sent (so the MKOB speed
setting is only really used to help with the decoding). If you are trying
to learn, it is best to not watch the code reader window, as it will always
be slightly behind the code that is sounding (as it takes time to decode
it). Instead, try to copy it yourself and then (possibly) compare to the
code reader window to see if you agree.
…-Ed
On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 5:22 PM Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
Nice! Just got some motivation to get back into learning Morse and this
seems like a great resource even just turning on the auto feeds to practice
listening!
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Definitely more of a programmer who just recently started to commit to learning Morse! I was mostly trying to see how far I could get without looking at the code and just looking at the public docs (wiki and PDFs). I got a library + CLI client working with the public server playing tones (and decoding the very clean auto feeds 😂). I definitely have a new appreciation for why auto Morse decoders aren't like a solved problem these days. No need to go hunting in the code though, I'll wade through it if I get the itch. I always saw these other radio things going over IP, a couple of searches later I found this crazy project (in a nice way)!! Gives me some motivation to finish up these Morse lessons. |
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Very good.
Les gets all the credit for the American Morse decoding. I just contributed
a small tweak to the auto speed detect that helps it stay on track when
senders change or a novice is sending and the speed isn't really
consistent. Then, once the auto speed detect was fairly reliable I added
the option to have the decoder use the detected speed rather than the
configured (sending) speed.
…-Ed
On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 6:25 PM Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
Definitely more of a programmer who just recently started to commit to
learning Morse! I was mostly trying to see how far I could get without
looking at the code and just looking at the public docs (wiki and PDFs). I
got a library + CLI client working with the public server playing tones
(and decoding the very clean auto feeds 😂).
I definitely have a new appreciation for why auto Morse decoders aren't
like a solved problem these days.
No need to go hunting in the code though, I'll wade through it if I get
the itch.
I always saw these other radio things going over IP, a couple of searches
later I found this crazy project (in a nice way)!!
Gives me some motivation to finish up these Morse lessons.
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Hi Joel,
I got interested in MorseKOB for much the same reasons - (now retired) SW engineer, interested in learning Morse and MorseKOB is a cool project with fascinating roots in the history of telegraphy. FWIW, besides the difference in code (“American Morse” on telegraph lines and “International Morse” on radio), telegraphs and SW radio signals are also different presentations of the same phenomena - click/clack of the relay opening and closing vs. beep/pause on the air. From all I read people can learn to distinguish Int’l morse (beeeeeeep-beep-beeeeeep) and American Morse (click/clack/click-pause-clack) in their brain and decode both with equal fluency without mixing up the two codes!
There are some aspects of the encoding that make sense only if you consider the physical apparatus that’s being emulated, where pushing down on the key for a given period is physically indistinguishable, except in duration, from “closing your key” and letting the circuit flow past your station uninterrupted etc. Hope that makes sense.
I ended up writing a morse-decoding library as well - I don’t believe it’s the same as the one in the MorseKOB code and I’ve been meaning to compare the relative accuracy of each on some recordings sometime but I’ve not gotten around to that so far. I wrote it for a little Arduino/ESP32 microcomputer based gadget that should be able to join a wire over WiF and show you what’s playing, as well as carry a key interface to let you type along. Quite comparable to the “Morserino” gadgets, if you ‘ve seen those. I have it reading out a decoded wire scrolling on a display but haven’t had much time to play with it lately. The decoding is done by trying to guess the sender’s “dot speed” based on quantization of the dit/dah lengths and adjusting the interpretation of the incoming signal based on the estimated speed, then converting to dot/dash and then to text. We should compare implementations sometime when you’ve had a chance to try your hand at it!
Good luck!
-Patrick.
… On Jun 17, 2026, at 6:25 PM, Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
Definitely more of a programmer who just recently started to commit to learning Morse! I was mostly trying to see how far I could get without looking at the code and just looking at the public docs (wiki and PDFs). I got a library + CLI client working with the public server playing tones (and decoding the very clean auto feeds 😂).
I definitely have a new appreciation for why auto Morse decoders aren't like a solved problem these days.
No need to go hunting in the code though, I'll wade through it if I get the itch.
I always saw these other radio things going over IP, a couple of searches later I found this crazy project (in a nice way)!!
Gives me some motivation to finish up these Morse lessons.
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Yeah, I contribute a small bit to another project that deals with embedded device recently doing some LoRa integrations and they recently got some pretty big ESP32 support. That gives me some fun ideas! The morserino has another protocol involved as well MOPP? |
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Hi Joel,
Yes, the Morserino-32 is a completely unrelated device, created as a Kickstarter by Willi Kraml, OE1WKL and now in its third generation (the “Pocket Morserino”). It’s a hardware-based Morse practice gadget that also has some means of communicating between two Morserinos. I’m not sure what the protocol is but it’s unrelated to CW COM/MorseKOB. I’ve toyed with the idea of incorporating MorseKOB support in the Morserino code base (it’s open source) - might be a fun addition!
In any case, check out https://www.morserino.info/ if you’re curious to learn more. Just know they’re unrelated efforts, but both are great for getting involved with Morse code!
Cheers,
-Patrick.
… On Jun 17, 2026, at 7:05 PM, Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
Yeah, I contribute a small bit to another project that deals with embedded device recently doing some LoRa integrations and they recently got some pretty big ESP32 support. That gives me some fun ideas! The morserino has another protocol involved as well MOPP?
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And, if you are interested in different implementations... I have an
implementation in C that runs on an RP2040/2350 (Pico). It is in my µKOB
project repo: https://github.com/MorseKOB/MuKOB
It handles American Morse and International code.
…On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 7:05 PM Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
Yeah, I contribute a small bit to another project that deals with embedded
device recently doing some LoRa integrations and they recently got some
pretty big ESP32 support. That gives me some fun ideas! The morserino has
another protocol involved as well MOPP?
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Cool, I got this going last night in my explorations https://github.com/jwetzell/morse-go |
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I'll take a look. I've never worked with GO.
…On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 7:42 PM Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
Cool, I got this going last night in my explorations
https://github.com/jwetzell/morse-go
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I enjoy the language, it's got it differences. I just wanted to mess around with interfacing with the public MKOB server and so put that and the little CLI together last night. Still have to look at doing something on the actual morse side! |
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That's great. The one thing we ask is that you not send on the 'feed' wires
(100-299: BBC, Train Orders, things like that). The main wire used for
conversations is 11. If you want to test sending we suggest a wire from
90-99.
If you access the server page you can see which wires have something active
on them.
http://mtc-kob.dyndns.org/index.html
The MKOB app also shows the wires in the HELP menu and you can double-click
a wire to connect.
If you don't want to mess with the Python stuff, you can get the Windows
version of the MKOB Suite here: https://www.aesilky.com/morse
…-Ed
On Wed, Jun 17, 2026 at 9:10 PM Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
I enjoy the language, it's got it differences. I just wanted to mess
around with interfacing with the public MKOB server and so put that and the
little CLI together last night. Still have to look at doing something on
the actual morse side!
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Sounds good, I don't run Windows (I do have a couple Windjows VMs that I did do some testing of that suite with) which is what kind of drove me towards looking at the repo and making my own implementation as getting the python app off the ground required a kind of annoying amount of system libraries to be installed (SDL2 things and what not). |
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Interesting on your experience with the Python app. I have quite a large
number of installations of it (many museums in Canada), and they just `pip
install -r requirements.txt` and they are up and running.
…On Thu, Jun 18, 2026 at 6:19 AM Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
Sounds good, I don't run Windows (I do have a couple Windjows VMs that I
did do some testing of that suite with) which is what kind of drove me
towards looking at the repo and making my own implementation as getting the
python app off the ground required a kind of annoying amount of system
libraries to be installed (SDL2 things and what not).
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I tried on both macOS and Ubuntu 24.04 and |
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Ah, yes - if you want to use computer sound (pyaudio) those are required.
Most people already have pyaudio installed (for other apps). If you are
just using your sounder you can remove pyaudio from the requirements.txt.
…On Thu, Jun 18, 2026 at 9:27 AM Joel Wetzell ***@***.***> wrote:
I tried on both macOS and Ubuntu 24.04 and pip install -r requirements.txt
required things to be present. From what I can remember sdl2_mixer,
sdl2_image, sdl2_ttf is what I can remember on macOS side and portaudio
needed to be present on the Ubuntu install.
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The apps handle the absence of PyAudio and PySerial (those not being
available will not keep the apps from running). You just can't use computer
sound if PyAudio isn't available, and the Key/Sounder if PySerial isn't
available. And PyGame-CE is only required for the Telegram app (it is used
for the GUI for that app).
…On Thu, Jun 18, 2026 at 9:34 AM Ed Silky ***@***.***> wrote:
Ah, yes - if you want to use computer sound (pyaudio) those are required.
Most people already have pyaudio installed (for other apps). If you are
just using your sounder you can remove pyaudio from the requirements.txt.
On Thu, Jun 18, 2026 at 9:27 AM Joel Wetzell ***@***.***>
wrote:
> I tried on both macOS and Ubuntu 24.04 and pip install -r
> requirements.txt required things to be present. From what I can remember
> sdl2_mixer, sdl2_image, sdl2_ttf is what I can remember on macOS side
> and portaudio needed to be present on the Ubuntu install.
>
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One part that is kind of perplexing me is the special cases added in the extension described here.
One of the first things I notice when I connect a station to say wire 180 or something with a feed is that after the ack from my connect packet I get a data packet containing [-32767, 2, -1000, 2]. This confused me at first then I noticed the kind of carve out for
(-n, +2)case wheren > 3000. Ok, that seems to be what I have hear (at least for the first half). The document saysDoes this mean that this operation "consumes" both the
-nand the+2and that processing of codes should begin at the-1000element? IF that is the case then I am looking at another(-n, +2)packet except this timen < 3000which the document doesn't say here but does say in a different section that this format is also what is sent when a key is unlatched and n is how long it was latched for. What is a receiving station supposed to do with that timing info (in this case 1000ms)?All reactions